MMA ROUND TABLE

The Strikeforce Challengers series returns to the Save Mart Center November 6th. It will feature some of the best MMA talent in Fresno. VSP MMA columnist James Gilliland caught up with a few of the fighters that will be featured on the card. Cole Escovedo (CE), who has overcome insurmountable odds to come back to MMA and is one of the first notable fighters to come out of the valley, Ben Holscher (BH), a teacher at Clovis High and undefeated MMA fighter, Casey Olson (CO), a former Fresno State wrestler and valley MMA favorite, and undefeated Billy Evangelista (BE), who will be fighting in the main event against Jorge Gurgel.

JAMES GILLILAND: What do you think about the growth of MMA?
BH: I think the growth of MMA is awesome. People are starting to become more educated about the sport and we’re starting to break down stereotypes. For a long time, people thought it was just a bunch of thugs going out there fighting. Over the last three years people are starting to learn about the game and all the skills that are involved.
Kids at my school are starting to get involved. They’re starting to see that you have to train you can’t go out there and fight. I think the media has done a good job educating the public that it is a sport. I’m excited to see all the young people training and where the skill level will be in ten years.

CO: If you look at where it has come from to where it is now. It’s exploded especially in the last four years. To see big venues being sold out all over the country, all over the world. It’s definitely exciting to see a sport like this because it is a sport. You train just like any sport, we push our bodies to the max just like any sport you would do. It is neat to see kids now have idols that are in this sport and you can no longer be good at this sport by having one skill. When it started it was a boxer versus a wrestler, if the wrestler got you down it was over. A wrestler versus a jiu-jitsu guy, the jiu-jitsu guy would probably tap you out. You have World champion jiu-jitsu guys, world champion kickboxing guys, and you have national champion wrestlers and that’s all one person. It’s become such a well-rounded sport these younger kids, I can’t wait to see some of these kids I think are phenomenal right now at 12 and 13 when they’re going to be 20. You think GSP (Georges St. Pierre) is good, just wait until this sport gets going.

CE: You see the building blocks for what the sport is going to be… It’s a new lunch box idea to them, you’re going to see guys like Chuck (Liddell) and Randy (Couture) on lunch boxes and trading cards. It’s just a matter of time they already have action figures, that’s the start… It’s like the new Nike; it’s the new sport of the generation.

JG: What’s it like dealing with MMA stereotypes?
CE: It’s not as hard as it was five or six years ago. We have had some much mainstream attention… They (general public) start to see more than just fighting. They see how we are active in the community, we’re not just thugs. Your average MMA fighter is probably a dad or family oriented and they come from a competitive background in sports… We don’t have to deal with the stereotypes as much. Except for people like the Mayor, who think it is still backyard brawling and doesn’t understand the economical ramifications of it and how much revue can be made off what it’s become. Instead of holding it back like (John) McCain. Who still thinks it “human cockfighting” they don’t want to take a step back and look at the big picture. Those are the stereotypes we still have to deal with; more political stereotypes than from the community.

CO: Unfortunately, I still get a little bit of stereotypes of the thugs and the brutal combat of the sport. I do a lot of speaking engagements and I was going to do one at a cancer camp this last summer. It was planned out for a whole year and then a month before they cancelled it because of what I do. The head of directors cancelled it because they didn’t think it was right to have somebody who fights for a living and they didn’t think the parents would like it. I do this because I want to be out there in front of people, I want to be an inspiration for kids to look up to. I think there are so many false idols out there, there’s always going to be the bad apples in any group. I could have been Michael Vick and they probably still would have let me do the speaking engagement because it’s football. But, because I have fighting in my career they didn’t like that so the stereotype is still out there… There are a lot of good idols out there that set good examples. Most of the guys you see on T.V. who are world champions have college degrees. So, how is that not a good example, they are doing the best that they can in they’re sport. It’s sad that the stereotype is still out there. In my way the stereotype is kind of like racism. I don’t see a difference black or white there is no difference to me, whether you play soccer, football, baseball, or you fight.

BH: I think the stereotypes will be broken down. Parents ask me, “you’re a teacher but you fight how do you support that?” After I tell them my reasons for fighting that it’s a sport that I compete… The stereotypes seem to get broken down from what I’ve seen. I think once I’ve said my piece, I’ll get some people that were turned off on fighting to check it out. The more educated the public gets the more the stereotypes will be broken down… The sports going to change in five years, there’s not going to be as many stereotypes.

JG: Where do you think the growth of MMA will end?
CO: Chuck is on ‘Dancing with the Stars.’ that just shows you the sky’s the limit.

BH: We’re just starting it’s going to be up there with football. Whether it’s Strikeforce or UFC there’s going to be Friday night fights just like boxing. Once that all gets packaged, I don’t think there is going to be a difference between MMA, the NBA, and the NFL.

CE: It will be a business thing too clothing lines like Tapout, Dethrone, and Cage Fighter. They will have to start competing with Nike and Reebok. They’re going to start realizing how much money they are missing out on by not being involved in the sport. Once that happens, it’s going to be a huge turning point when the major athletic companies. When that happens it will help bring more legitimacy to our sport…
We are still in our infancy as much as we have accomplished in the past ten years. You see Chuck on Dancing with the Stars you start to notice these kinds of thing. You’re not just seeing Chuck on the Ultimate Fighter and on UFC shows. You’re seeing him on ABC on a show that every family will gather on a Monday night to watch. They’re going to start seeing things and be like “hey, that’s the UFC fighter what’s he doing on this show?” It starts to peak interest then you see him on other show shows. It will start to spread out to mainstream society and it will be become accepted as an everyday thing…

JG: What do you guys think about steroids in MMA?
CO: If somebody needs to use them, let them use them. If that’s what they have to do who cares… I’ve never done anything; I think it just comes down to working hard and the right nutrition. I don’t think it’s a huge thing, I don’t think if my opponent does steroids it’s going to affect the outcome.

CE: It makes them feel dumber after he beats them.

CO: I’ve wrestled guys on who are on steroids and I don’t think it affects the outcome if I’m working hard and I’m suppose to win, I’m suppose to win… I don’t condone them at all just like drugs but if that’s what you think you need to do to get by, then do it to get by. I think I’m going to run extra sprints, you think you’re going to poke yourself in the a** go for it.

CE: It just shows lack of self-confidence in your training. I’ve never been happy about my cardio, okay I start wearing a weigh vest and I’m going to add a snorkel to my training. I’d rather do that than stick a needle in my butt, that’s where I sit down its sore all the time. If you think you need that to win it shows a lack of self-confidence. There is the main problem of why you’re not winning fights. If you think you need to juice yourself to win your fights. Then you need to take a step back and look at why you’re losing your fights to begin with… It’s because, your stand-up sucks and your ground game sucks. I’m with Casey on that I don’t condone it at all; I don’t think people should use it. If you use it and you get caught then you deserve the spanking you get. Its things like that hurt our legitimacy… We don’t need it in our sport.

BH: I agree with what they said it’s dumb and it’s pointless. On the side of our athletic commissions they can take a stand right now and set up a strict testing policy. We’re a new sport and we can avoid those black eyes and things like that… We’re a relatively new sport set-up strict testing where everyone gets tested so many times a year. Fix the problem before it becomes one.

CO: We already have to do physicals, eye exams, neural exams, MRI’s, and blood tests. Every other month every two months, if you’re a fighter and your status is fighting you do a test. If it’s such an issue then might as well just nip it in the butt right then. There are some many little things oh well he’s got point zero milligrams of this in his system. What does that do? Oh well, it helped him hold on to that triangle a little bit longer.

JG: What do you think about the growth of MMA in the Central Valley?
CO: I think it’s grown a lot and it has a lot more to go. We’re in the Save Mart Center now and probably being able to do about 5,000 people. That’s a huge thing from when I first started watching Cole fight in Lemoore at the Palace. They tried to do it at Table Mountain a couple of times it wasn’t very good so the Palace was the only place that really had it. They would probably do about 2,000 people over there but now with Zinkin being a huge manager here. He doesn’t have just any fighters, he has the best of the best he’s got Chuck Liddell, Forrest Griffin, Josh Koscheck, Jon Fitch, and Mike Swick. He’s got the best of the best and brining those guys to Fresno when we have fights is huge. It’s huge for the sport those guys are icons, people look up to them and people want to see them… I think since we have local guys, who are very good, Cole’s been fighting for years he build up his name a long time ago. Billy is the best kept secret of Fresno; he’s going to be the next big thing. He’s been coming up for a long time off and on in fighting but now he is headlining the Strikeforce show with Jorge Gurgel which is on Showtime. It’s a big thing for Fresno.

BE: It’s changed so much. I remember going to Porterville, driving really far. My first amateur fight I went to Medford, Oregon, my first fight they gave a hundred dollars and a gift certificate to Outback Steakhouse (Everyone laughs) it was rough. Now, guys are crying for like a thousand dollars but they don’t understand it’s your first fight. It could be worse; a lot of people had it a lot worse.

CE: I got a trophy and congratulations and I was like ‘Yeah, I got a trophy!’

BE: I was proud of my gift certificate. The hundred dollars went for gas and trail mix. Then come back the next year and so I do it all over again. Maybe this time I can get two gift certificates. (Every laughs)

CE: It’s grown the days of saying thanks for the couple hundred bucks I got. You would get a free flight out of state somewhere and a free hotel room for the night, and here’s a hundred bucks split between your cornermen. Those days, thank God, are long gone and the sports grown enough to where it’s a matter of, as greed as it sounds I hate to say it with this economy and the way things are going you get to auction yourself off…
For some of the smaller guys who aren’t on T.V. yet. I can go fight at the Palace, I can fight at the Save Mart Center, I can go fight in Tulare or Visalia it’s a matter of who wants to pay me the most. How much money can I get for my time and my effort? These guys want to pay me two and two (Earnings are based on a fighter showing up and weighing in then the second portion is based on winning the fight.) but these guys want to pay me four and four. Where do you think I’m going to go? I’m going to go where the money is because that’s what pays the bills and puts food on the table…
As opposed to “oh there are fights in Porterville, how much a couple hundred bucks. Okay, what time do I have to be there? Then it’s just a matter of sitting around wondering am I going to get paid? Okay, I’m getting paid cash the checks not going to bounce.” Now it’s like okay, how much are you going to pay me? Okay cool where is the contract? It’s us bringing more professionalism to the sport… Now, it’s like no, you want me to fight show me the piece of paper. I need to get paid, I have bills and a family to feed because most of the time you’re going to find fighters that are probably fighting to put food on the table. That’s what they do for a living they don’t work a nine to five… That’s how we pay our bills as opposed to sitting in a cubicle working a nine to five wanting to blow his brains out. That’s how I think valley sports have grown, instead of begging for fights you get to pick and choose.

JG: What do you think about the Mayor not wanting to hold MMA in Woodward Park?
CE: I’m sure she’s extremely intelligent. You don’t’ get to be mayor by being a doorknob but I don’t know, its Fresno. I don’t think she realizes the loss of revenue for north Fresno… For the mayor to say no we don’t want to have fights in north Fresno, that’s pulling money from north Fresno businesses. You’ve got the north Fresno hotels, if you can get a promoter to put everybody in up in north Fresno hotels, as opposed to having to go down the 41 to Tulare or Divisadero to get a hotel room for the show. I don’t think she’s an ignorant person, I just think she’s very firm on it and I think it’s a mistake it’s hurting north Fresno businesses… I know people that didn’t want to go to the Fresno Fairgrounds event because they did not want to be down there after dark and I don’t blame them. I was just walking to my car and I told my girlfriend “hey, I’m going to walk you to your car,” then I’m going to walk to my car and then we’ll leave because I didn’t want her walking by herself in the parking lot. That’s just me at a Woodward Park or a Save Mart Center event you can walk to your car and really not have a care in the world… Granted the parking was pretty bad, I guess it took a while to get out of there but were no incidents, no major problems, and no fights. Nothing that she would really have to worry about aside from the north end peoples complaints. Well if you don’t like it don’t go the park is pretty much closed at that time of the night anyway. It’s not like we’re ruining your Sunday picnic and it’s not like we’re going to be there holding an event while you have family time at the park. So it really doesn’t conflict with anything, it’s just hurting north business…

BH: I just don’t see the reasoning; you can have concerts out there things like that. The concert’s going to generate way more noise. I think it’s just the people in that area just being kind of ignorant to the sport and complaining about it. If I was running things as long as it’s a safe environment and putting on a good show that’s regulated. I don’t think I would turn down money in this economy from a business stand point. I would just like to hear her actual reasons other than I don’t like it and people in that area don’t like it. There are a lot of things in life you don’t like but you can work with it and can benefit. There’s definitely a greater good to have an event there as far as revenue… I just think the city is throwing away anywhere from $20 to $40,000 that weekend. If they can do without $40,000 per weekend then that’s cool.

CE: I would like to work in one of those restaurants and be able to $10,000 in a weekend.

CO: It’s a tough situation; I think there’s a lot of old school people involved. I think our mayor now thinks very old school, like I was saying earlier we have to adapt to the times… Now to bring more events over there it doesn’t to me even when they have offered to three times the rent to do it. It doesn’t make sense when they have cut people from jobs in parks and recreation because of the economy. But yet they’re turning down money that could be going into that, it doesn’t make sense. The event is at six o’clock at night, very few times do you see people walking around at six o’clock at night with their kids or nine o’clock. It’s over by nine, the next day if they have a good cleanup crew, everything is cleaned up they won’t even know. The issues of it took too long to get out well look at a baseball game it takes just as long. Sit on the 405 in L.A. travel down south it’s just like anything else, there are going to be good and bad in everything… The fact of what it can do for Fresno, we’re in a bad economy and why are we cutting peoples jobs when you have a chance to bring in money and have a surplus. It’s sad but the fight will go on, you tell us we can’t go somewhere, guess what we’re going to go somewhere else. That’s exactly what’s happened and it costs a lot more money to do it at Save Mart Center but we’ll do it and more people will come. It just stinks that a lot of people aren’t going to the north Fresno side because we’ll be over here now.

BE: I think it’s just a great place, the time that I went there; there were so many people just to watch the fight there were people sitting out on the dirt. If they may made that place bigger, like Casey and everyone said imagine how much more money would come in.

JG: Are you guys excited to fight in front of the hometown crowd for the Strikeforce card?
CO: I think the fight in front of our hometown that’s exactly what we get up for, this is kinda what we do it for. I think everybody could have fought anywhere but to do it in Fresno… This is it, this where we grew up, this is where we were raised… It’s a dream for a fighter to fight in your hometown. As much as we travel in this sport to find fights, it’s nice to do it right here to do it right here in front of everybody.

CE: It’s tough with added the pressure, but there’s pressure with all fights. Nobody wants to lose in front of their friends and family, it’s an opportunity… There’s little perks, aside from being able to fight in your own hometown which is a huge plus. Plus, you get pressure but you get local support. Pretty much everybody there is there for you. It’s not like having to go to Colorado or Utah, when you’re fighting their hometown guy and opposed to all you hear is boos. The arena goes nuts just for you because they hear you’re from Fresno or they know you personally, or train with you, or their kid goes to school with your kid…

BH: I think it’s awesome it’s like they said it’s sweet how much the people of Fresno support local guys. I’m not originally from here but just the way the community, the central valley especially Fresno has taken me in. It’s awesome and when they hear you’re from Fresno it makes them cheer that much louder… I’m very excited, I would rather go into a fight and have all my buddies behind me and that’s what we’re able to do. The fans of Fresno are awesome; I would never imagine I would have as many people yelling for me as I have just being somebody new to the area…. The last time I fought in the Save Mart Center was unreal. I can only imagine what it’s going to be like this time with this many Fresno people on the card, it’s going to be awesome.

BE: There is pressure at the same time the support itself, I think is helping me out. Especially for this fight, I do feel a lot of pressure for this fight. But to each one of us, the family is going to go support you; your friends are going to go support you and everyone that you know is going to go be there and cheer for you. Just a little motivation like “Yeah, right on keep fighting,” it helps you out. You ever see Hulk Hogan do his thing, that’s what it does (everyone laughs). Cheering for you it helps you out during a fight; it gives you a push in motivation to just keep going.

For more information on the event, go to www.strikeforce.com or www.ticketmaster.com.

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